Well said. My Alma Mater, Marquette and most Jesuits, have been confusing social Justice and socialism for 40 years. The leap to Woke was easy. Intellectual arrogance...
Don't know the Classical Education Movement that well. Don't know Mr. Freeman at all, but he is too provocative for his own good, which is why Goodwin easily has the better of the exchange. One aspect of Freeman's provocative framing is trying to get conservative educators feeling bad about ever claiming classical ed and the classics aren't racist. Ditto for ever claiming they aren't anti-democratic (i.e., hierarchical). You'll see what he means if you read the essay, and that he isn't for defending the classics in the name of some racialism or aristocratic form of government, but it takes a little bit to be sure you aren't dealing with such a cat...Freeman is "edgy" like that.
I tend not to trust such edginess wedded to uber-confidence, although sometimes it develops in a good way. The original (in nomenclature) "Postmodern Conservative," the early James Poulos, had these traits and mixed them with large dashes of what I'll call "promising incomprehensibleness," and he developed into a solid and important conservative thinker.
But I suspect I'd agree with Freeman's overall judgment of Jessica Hooten Wilson if I looked more closely into the matters here. I don't recall having felt anything more than "meh" about any JHW prose piece I've ever had the misfortune of stumbling more than a few grafs into--I seem to recall a few decent poems, though--so maybe this is the piece that finally makes it clear to me why that is.
As to Freeman's larger point about "hierarchy and heroes" being the heart of classical ed, it is correct as far as it goes (see my articulation of something similar but richer--6 exemplary lives--in my comments on Mahoney's Statesman as Thinker here https://pomocon.substack.com/p/a-parade-of-philosopher-statesmen), but Freeman tends to downplay the tensions--and the possible meeting-points--between the different modes of heroism. And Freeman doesn't appreciate enough the essential point that Plutarch's "book of heroes" is also a "book of republican heroes," in which heroism-aspirants like Caesar and Alexander who in fact damaged city-state liberty with their insatiable honor-pursuits, are as much counter-examples as they are exemplars. The only empire-heroes, or monarchy-heroes, present in the book are there to underline the transition OUT of polis liberty, as the cases of Antony and Demetrius underline. Consider finally what may seem a too-erudite but which is in fact a quite down-to-earth point: there isn't adequate room in Freeman's thought for the most telling man of the first book of Herodotus, the obscure servant of a small polis named Tellus, nor for the ideal Aristotle sketched in his Politics, of the man capable of "ruling and being ruled in turn." Freeman's too focused on "Caesars and Christs," and not enough on what the latter's blessing of the humble means for education, and for real freedom.
"Compulsory Universal Community Property is what I propose to propose; across-the-board Economic Equality, to fill those fissures that scar our society’s face. No more the division between Rich and Poor… …We’ll wear the same clothes, and share the same food… …My initial move will be to communalize land, and money, and all other property, personal and real."
Aristophanes, “Ecclesiazusae” (392 BC) quoted by Igor Shafarevich in The Socialist Phenomenon: A Historical Survey of Socialist Policies and Ideals
The title of Aristophanes’ comedy translates as “The Assembly Women”; that is a joke, because women were not permitted to attend the Assembly, where Athenian citizens proposed and voted on rules for their city-state. In the play, women disguise themselves as men to go participate in the Assembly. Apparently as woke socialists.
Well said. My Alma Mater, Marquette and most Jesuits, have been confusing social Justice and socialism for 40 years. The leap to Woke was easy. Intellectual arrogance...
Well said.. my alma mater
Don't know the Classical Education Movement that well. Don't know Mr. Freeman at all, but he is too provocative for his own good, which is why Goodwin easily has the better of the exchange. One aspect of Freeman's provocative framing is trying to get conservative educators feeling bad about ever claiming classical ed and the classics aren't racist. Ditto for ever claiming they aren't anti-democratic (i.e., hierarchical). You'll see what he means if you read the essay, and that he isn't for defending the classics in the name of some racialism or aristocratic form of government, but it takes a little bit to be sure you aren't dealing with such a cat...Freeman is "edgy" like that.
I tend not to trust such edginess wedded to uber-confidence, although sometimes it develops in a good way. The original (in nomenclature) "Postmodern Conservative," the early James Poulos, had these traits and mixed them with large dashes of what I'll call "promising incomprehensibleness," and he developed into a solid and important conservative thinker.
But I suspect I'd agree with Freeman's overall judgment of Jessica Hooten Wilson if I looked more closely into the matters here. I don't recall having felt anything more than "meh" about any JHW prose piece I've ever had the misfortune of stumbling more than a few grafs into--I seem to recall a few decent poems, though--so maybe this is the piece that finally makes it clear to me why that is.
As to Freeman's larger point about "hierarchy and heroes" being the heart of classical ed, it is correct as far as it goes (see my articulation of something similar but richer--6 exemplary lives--in my comments on Mahoney's Statesman as Thinker here https://pomocon.substack.com/p/a-parade-of-philosopher-statesmen), but Freeman tends to downplay the tensions--and the possible meeting-points--between the different modes of heroism. And Freeman doesn't appreciate enough the essential point that Plutarch's "book of heroes" is also a "book of republican heroes," in which heroism-aspirants like Caesar and Alexander who in fact damaged city-state liberty with their insatiable honor-pursuits, are as much counter-examples as they are exemplars. The only empire-heroes, or monarchy-heroes, present in the book are there to underline the transition OUT of polis liberty, as the cases of Antony and Demetrius underline. Consider finally what may seem a too-erudite but which is in fact a quite down-to-earth point: there isn't adequate room in Freeman's thought for the most telling man of the first book of Herodotus, the obscure servant of a small polis named Tellus, nor for the ideal Aristotle sketched in his Politics, of the man capable of "ruling and being ruled in turn." Freeman's too focused on "Caesars and Christs," and not enough on what the latter's blessing of the humble means for education, and for real freedom.
Woke was a joke to the ancient Greeks.
"Compulsory Universal Community Property is what I propose to propose; across-the-board Economic Equality, to fill those fissures that scar our society’s face. No more the division between Rich and Poor… …We’ll wear the same clothes, and share the same food… …My initial move will be to communalize land, and money, and all other property, personal and real."
Aristophanes, “Ecclesiazusae” (392 BC) quoted by Igor Shafarevich in The Socialist Phenomenon: A Historical Survey of Socialist Policies and Ideals
The title of Aristophanes’ comedy translates as “The Assembly Women”; that is a joke, because women were not permitted to attend the Assembly, where Athenian citizens proposed and voted on rules for their city-state. In the play, women disguise themselves as men to go participate in the Assembly. Apparently as woke socialists.