Glad you appreciate the intelligence of Helen, and convey some sense of the weightiness of book IV. I'll remind your readers that I explored both of these topics at pomocon: https://pomocon.substack.com/p/eva-branns-helen-part-ii I'm presently drafting my review of Nolan's film, which is mixed-bag: "Happy First Impressions, Melancholy Aftertastes" will be the title. Forthcoming at Dissident Conservative.
I disagree with your claim that the ambush/slaughter of the suitors is unjustified. You also seem to veer towards understanding Odysseus as purely trickster, a guy who seeks to "get away with everything," though I can't tell if that's you on Homer's O. as opposed to you only on Nolan's O. If you're speaking in that mode of Homer's O., I join Jenny Strauss Clay in disagreeing
You make an excellent point about Nolan making Helen irrelevant given the twin-sister thing.
Overall, I think the framing that your interlocutors gravitate towards here of a Christian re-understanding v. the original Homeric one, isn't that helpful. You try to make the best of it, but one can only do so much, scrambling to situate Nolan vis-a-vis Christianity and Dante vis-a-vis Ulysses also! I guess it's natural that they brought it up with you, since you mentioned Augustine's City of God in your suggestive little review. Oh, well, you did get your case for Nolan in there at the start, and nicely. Oh, and one last thing...where are you getting this idea you mention about the Olympians shifting gears and now (in Homer) wanting to take over everything, with the "plant an oar in an inland state" mission as a key to that? Or is that mainly you?
I'm pretty sure it's not mainly me -- couldn't claim to be that sharp -- I think if you read Benardete, he talks about it. Dunno who else might be a very sharp interpreter in America, but there are bound to be some -- I'd bet dollars to donuts they all see it, since it's announced in the proem & then moves on gradually through the story. Odysseus is an agent of the theological revolution.
But for my part I'm thinking about what Herodotus, Thucydides, & Plato had to say about Homer. What was he up to? That's the theological revolution.
The other thing is -- I've been trying to think through the passage from Homer to tragedy. What the tragic poets had to say about Homer & the complete reversal of the position of the protagonist to the community. The tragic protagonist is trapped in the city.
I know everyone's tired of the many pieces on the film--my wife just told me "the film that launched a thousand think-pieces" joke--but mine is now out, and I do have a bit more expertise with the epic than most, and I do make a few references to Titus's commentaries on it. https://dissidentcon.substack.com/p/happy-first-impressions-melancholy
Glad you appreciate the intelligence of Helen, and convey some sense of the weightiness of book IV. I'll remind your readers that I explored both of these topics at pomocon: https://pomocon.substack.com/p/eva-branns-helen-part-ii I'm presently drafting my review of Nolan's film, which is mixed-bag: "Happy First Impressions, Melancholy Aftertastes" will be the title. Forthcoming at Dissident Conservative.
I disagree with your claim that the ambush/slaughter of the suitors is unjustified. You also seem to veer towards understanding Odysseus as purely trickster, a guy who seeks to "get away with everything," though I can't tell if that's you on Homer's O. as opposed to you only on Nolan's O. If you're speaking in that mode of Homer's O., I join Jenny Strauss Clay in disagreeing
You make an excellent point about Nolan making Helen irrelevant given the twin-sister thing.
Overall, I think the framing that your interlocutors gravitate towards here of a Christian re-understanding v. the original Homeric one, isn't that helpful. You try to make the best of it, but one can only do so much, scrambling to situate Nolan vis-a-vis Christianity and Dante vis-a-vis Ulysses also! I guess it's natural that they brought it up with you, since you mentioned Augustine's City of God in your suggestive little review. Oh, well, you did get your case for Nolan in there at the start, and nicely. Oh, and one last thing...where are you getting this idea you mention about the Olympians shifting gears and now (in Homer) wanting to take over everything, with the "plant an oar in an inland state" mission as a key to that? Or is that mainly you?
I'm pretty sure it's not mainly me -- couldn't claim to be that sharp -- I think if you read Benardete, he talks about it. Dunno who else might be a very sharp interpreter in America, but there are bound to be some -- I'd bet dollars to donuts they all see it, since it's announced in the proem & then moves on gradually through the story. Odysseus is an agent of the theological revolution.
But for my part I'm thinking about what Herodotus, Thucydides, & Plato had to say about Homer. What was he up to? That's the theological revolution.
The other thing is -- I've been trying to think through the passage from Homer to tragedy. What the tragic poets had to say about Homer & the complete reversal of the position of the protagonist to the community. The tragic protagonist is trapped in the city.
Good stuff! Yeah, since I've been heavily shaped on this by Brann, Nagy, and Clay, I've got to get into that Benardete book.
I know everyone's tired of the many pieces on the film--my wife just told me "the film that launched a thousand think-pieces" joke--but mine is now out, and I do have a bit more expertise with the epic than most, and I do make a few references to Titus's commentaries on it. https://dissidentcon.substack.com/p/happy-first-impressions-melancholy